The Great Connection by Arnie Warren
Bookends Book Club: Podcast Episode #3
The Great Connection is the story of a man on a journey to learn how to connect with himself. In the process, he learns how to connect with others. Susan Stamm interviewed the author of the book, Arnie Warren, on March 7, 2008 — just one month prior to his untimely death on April 19, 2008.
The Great Connection is used by practitioners of the DiSC model of behavior as a way to help audiences develop a deeper appreciation of the four behavioral styles. Arnie’s skill as a professional interviewer and his practical approach to DiSC has created a story that leaves a lasting impression on readers.
In this interview, you will learn the origins of the book and how it came to be. Additionally, you will walk away with some practical points of view that will help anyone looking to use DiSC more effectively. Finally, you will hear from Arnie on how to use DiSC to bring out the best in others.
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Table of Contents
Origins of "The Great Connection"
Follow Along - 00:46
Susan: Arnie, one cannot help but wonder, especially if they know your background in radio, if this book is an autobiographical work. Can you tell us how you gave birth to this book?
Arnie: Yes, it is autobiographical in great part. However, not everything is the way it happened in life. But for the most part — yes. Bob Hathaway is me.
I had an interview show, as you mentioned, at KMOX in Saint Louis. Everybody comes through Saint Louis: the authors, the artists, the politicians, the stars. One of them was Dr. Robert Lefton, whose company is Psychological Associates. His company teaches upper management internationally — people skills.
Lefton’s book is Improving Productivity Through People Skills. A year later, after I left Saint Louis, I had the time to read the book, and for the first time in my life (I am in my fifties at this point), I saw the four behavioral styles. And I thought, Oh my God, there I am. Why didn’t this cross my path beforehand? Everybody should know this!
And so I thought, Well, I’ll write a book. It started off as a textbook because that’s all I knew to write. Eight years passed. I didn’t work diligently eight hours a day for eight years, but every once in a while I’d sit down and say, “how can I present these behavioral styles so that people can grasp it quickly and easily and have that revelation of knowing who they are?”
One day, I’m in a recording studio with a woman I’m doing some work with, and she says, “You know, you’re a great storyteller — you should write a story.” Well, the word story resonated with me. I went home and sat down at the computer.
Arnie: Remember how, as children, all the stories began with once upon a time? Well, so did mine. Once there was a little boy soprano desperate to grow whiskers. And with that format in mind, 90 pages came out to explain to the central character the four behavioral styles.
Now, in college we learned that Plato said, ”Know, thyself.” Well, if you take that and don’t know the four behavioral styles you will, in my case for example, I wanted to please everybody. I wanted to be accepted by everybody. So, I certainly knew myself. Thank you, Mr. Plato.
But then I met with Jim McLamore, the founder of Burger King, who was a friend of mine. We attended the same prep school in New England. We’d see one another at community activities here in Miami. He was a wonderful man. Not only a successful businessman, but a great philanthropist and a gentle man. That’s the kind of person you want to ask, “What is the secret to success?” And so I asked. And right away he said, “Total belief in yourself.” And I thought, if you don’t know who you are, how can you believe that whom you do not know? Bingo. There comes The Great Connection and why I expressed it in a storybook fashion.
The "i" style: acceptance
follow along - 04:16
Susan: Your main character, Bob Hathaway, represents the “i” behavioral style. He’s manifesting an ineffective trait of trying to please everyone to gain their acceptance of him. Would you be willing to read the portion of The Great Connection where his mentor, Doc Crater, takes him to the top of the arch in Saint Louis? This is found on page 18.
Arnie: Before I read that to you, I remember that in St. Louis I had the greatest job in the world. I was well paid to interview people, and I found what they were doing in life fascinating. One day, we were at an outside activity with local people. Lou Aldermen — a big, burly politician — said to me, “Why don’t you take a stand on anything?” And, see? My behavior style didn’t want to take a stand because somebody might not like me for the stand I take. So you waffle your way through life.
Arnie: Doc Crater takes Bob Hathaway up to the top of the arch and he says, “Stand over here. This side looks East to Illinois.” “Wow,” said Bob. “Look how far you can see.”
“And on this side, he said, turning, you can see West over Missouri.”
Bob picked out the landmarks — the old courthouse, the union station, the airport, the suburbs of St. Lewis — from Clayton to Chesterfield. “Why did you want me to see this?” Bob asked.
“Come over to the East side again. Picture all the people living out there in Ohio, in Michigan, up to New England and down to Florida. Everyone from here to the Atlantic Ocean.”
“Now,” he took Bob by the elbow and urged him to turn, “picture all the people in Missouri, Texas, Colorado, beyond to California, and up to Alaska — from here to the Pacific — and imagine every single face of 250 million people looking up at you, everyone is staring at you.”
“And?” Bob asked.
“And, not one person, of all those millions, cares what you choose to do in life. Not one.” The Doctor increased the pressure on Bob’s elbow. “If no one cares what you do in life, Mr. Hathaway, why on earth should you be spending your life seeking their approval?”
Bob looked down at the city, the old man watching traffic move around the courthouse, and out toward the airport. Bob, not thinking about city traffic or even that he was at the top of the arch, was overwhelmed by the power of the old man’s statement. It was both stunning and accurate. No one cares what I choose to do in life. Why should I spend my life seeking everyone’s approval?
Susan: Such a powerful passage, and Doc Crater is a powerful character in a very subtle and sincere way.
Mentors for The Great Connection
follow along - 07:02
Susan: Did you have a mentor like Doc Crater? Since this is an autobiographical work, was there someone that was your Doc Crater?
Arnie: Not in life that I can think of. When writing the book, yes, Doctor Lefton, who I really only called about four times in the course of writing the book to make sure I was psychologically correct.
The other person, well, I had a good friend, Jim Barber, here in South Florida whom I called daily and said, “What do you think of this? What do you think of that?” And I’d read it to him and, bless his heart, he would listen. But, he wouldn’t tell me whether it was good, bad, or indifferent, or what he would do. He worked it around to ask me the questions. He’d ask: “But what do you think?” so that I came up with my own answers.
The third person, and maybe some of you know her, was Linda Sasha. Bless her heart. She’s not a professional editor, but she was to me. She made sure that every bit of dialogue that came out of the mouth of that particular behavior was accurate. She would send me back the manuscript with little brackets saying: That’s good or What do we need that for? You know, that sort of thing. So, yes, she mentored as well as edited for me. So those would be the three people in regards to The Great Connection that I would give some attribution to.
Becoming more effective
follow along - 08:21
Susan: It was really amazing how quickly Bob Hathaway in your story was able to begin to capitalize on his DiSC knowledge and begin to see results. There’s a scene in the book that represents a transition when Bob has a confrontation with his boss, whose name is Blaylock. Bob, of course, is still very new to his DiSC understanding, but the change that you see in his response to his boss is really quite powerful.
Arnie, since this is really your story, can you tell us how you personally made that transition in your life and in your work from being ineffective with some of your “i” traits to being more effective?
Arnie: The underlying foundation of that is what Doctor Lefton showed me in his book — our spontaneous style and our masked behavior. The masked behavior is putting on something that you’re uncomfortable with. But if you’re honest, it will expand your comfort zone to become part of it.
Knowing that that was okay to don that masked behavior, you still had your integrity about you. You weren’t being false. I could recognize, obviously, when I was trying to be accepted by someone and immediately say, get off that, and look to your effective traits and manifest those.
In the course of that process, what helped me greatly (because I was an interviewer) was learning how to get somebody else talking, which would take it off me, and put it on them. Then I would react to them. And therefore, I would not have to try for their acceptance. I could get beyond that and work on the effective traits, which were great people skills and so forth.
Reluctance towards change
follow along - 10:29
Susan: One scene in The Great Connection has Bob Hathaway questioning why he was even bothering to change at all. He was reluctant to begin the process of changing as many of us often are when we’re confronted with the need to change. Will you read us the passage on page 38 where Bob and Doc Crater are at the ballpark together?
Arnie: “Doc,” he began. “I know you’re trying to be helpful, but this is just depressing me. How can I stop being what I am? How can anyone stop being what they are?”
“Come on back to the box,” he said, taking Bob’s arm, “It’s more private.”
Arnie: Settling in their box seats, Doc Crater said, “Bob, you don’t stop being who you are. It’s not a case of changing Bob Hathaway into someone he’s not.”
“Doc, maybe I’m too old for this.”
“As far as age is concerned, I think, for many reasons, the older you are, the better! With some years behind you, you have a better perspective of yourself and your style. Don’t you see what this knowledge can do for you? For the first time in your life, your ineffective traits have been identified. Lift that baggage, neutralize it, throw it away, and focus on your God-given strengths.”
“And this will help me with my job?”
“Son, this will help you with your life.”
Susan: The enormity of the challenge to change… we have all been there of course!
5 steps to get someone talking
follow along - 11:49
Susan: In The Great Connection, you show the reader how to get people talking so you can determine their style. It’s a really powerful and very practical process that you share in the book. If we’re ever to communicate with someone, we need to figure out how they want to be communicated to. We first have to get them talking so that we can begin to determine their behavioral style.
In your book, you mention an interview between the character that Bob Hathaway had with Leo Buscaglia and how the interview helped him come up with this process. Was this a fictional part of the book, or did this interview with Leo actually occur in your life?
Arnie: That actually occurred. When I was writing the book and got through the behavior styles, I thought, This isn’t enough. And, as you said, people want to be talked to the way they want to be talked to. And so I thought, How do we determine someone else’s style? Well, you’ve got to get them talking.
And then I thought, Well, I’ve interviewed a lot of people, and then I remembered Leo Buscaglia and what he said to me. You remember him: “Dr. Love, Dr Hug.” True to his word, he came down the hall and gave me a big hug. We sat down and talked for the first 10 minutes before we broke to commercial.
When we broke away, he leaned over the desk and said, “You really listen.” And recalling that I thought, What was I doing? So I began to write down the process, and there’s five steps.
5 steps to really listen and get someone talking
- Ask them, “Tell me about…”
- Look for signposts to ask additional questions and probe deeper.
- Brief inserts (reactions like “hmm” or “wow!”
- Pause. Allow them to give you more than you thought to ask.
- Summarize the conversation.
Arnie:There have been a lot of seminars on how to listen. I researched that and I thought, I can’t do that. Because if I’m talking with somebody, my mind is saying, what are the listening steps? What is the process of listening? And I’m so busy figuring that out that I don’t hear a word they’re saying!
So how did I make this work? First, you don’t want to start off with a question that will get a yes or no answer. The words are (as corny as they may seem, but they work) “tell me about…” You can ask people, “Tell me about the movie. Tell me about why you’re going to the University of Florida,” and they will respond.
Or, if they don’t, they’ll say there’s nothing to tell, then fine. They’re not in the mood to talk in the first place, so we just move on. But, nine times out of ten, they will respond. If we visualize that conversation, it’s a paragraph. Within that paragraph are signposts, which allow you to ask further “tell me about” questions to probe a little deeper. They don’t feel like they’re being grilled because they’re talking a bit.
So, number one: “tell me about…” Number two: we’re looking for signposts.
Number three, we have brief inserts. Those are things like “oh wow, hmm, ha!” and reactions like that. So it’s not to disturb their train of thought. I know “i” behaviors as soon as somebody finishes telling the story the “i” wants to say, “Hey, the same thing happened to me!” and tell their story. They would cut off that person and no longer can determine what their style is because they’ve spoiled it for themselves. So, the brief inserts.
The fourth is the pause. This is gold. When someone finishes with that paragraph, you look at them. Pause. How long? A pause will be 3 to 5 seconds. And they will think, Either this person is so stupid that they didn’t get it, and I have to repeat it or maybe I didn’t explain it enough, and I’ll have to repeat it again.
In this repetitive mode, they will expose more of their behavioral style then you would have even thought to ask. News people do this all the time when they’re interviewing someone. They give the pause, and it’s that second sound bite that really gets to their heart. So that pause is critical.
The fifth step is the summary, of course, of the whole conversation — the purpose of meeting.
So, again: “tell me about,” looking for signposts, brief inserts, and the pause.
Examples for using signposts
follow along - 16:31
Arnie: I’ll give you two examples now. One, I’m going to give you a nursery rhyme example (which is in the book) to show you how easy it is to see these signposts so that you don’t have to keep thinking of the steps.
But first, think of a bullseye — a target. Around the center is a circle, and then there’s a circle around the outside. Now, if I was meeting with a senior at the University of Florida, I could say, “Tell me about the University of Florida,” and he could speak from now ‘till doomsday about the University of Florida. Do we learn anything about him? No.
Not until we come down to the second circle: “Tell me why you went to the University of Florida. What was that process?” And it still might not get to the heart of the matter until you found out what he was majoring in: “Tell me about what motivated you? What was your earliest time in life when that’s what you wanted to do and you knew it?” Now it’s exposing.
So when you say, “tell me about,” make sure that you get into the core of the matter.
Arnie: Now, the easiest example can give is the “Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water” story. Jack fell down, broke his crown, and Jill came tumbling after.
Now, you’re at a soirée, and you’re sitting around there with your potato chips and your dip, and here comes Jack with a bandage around his head with a little blood stain on the forehead. You say, “Jack, tell me about your accident.”
And he says, “Well, you know, I had the bucket. I was going up the hill, like I always do. Jill was with me. Got up to the top. Had to prime the pump, got the pump going, filled it with water. I was just about to turn to go down that hill. I had one foot in the air, and Jill says, ‘Jack, look at that!’ She points to the sky. It’s a skywriter, in a plane, writing the word Pepsi.” He says, “At that point, I lost my balance. I went tumbling down. The bucket went I don’t know where, and I cracked my forehead on a rock. I had to go to Doc Winslow to get some stitches. Jill’s at the chiropractor now.”
Now, how many signposts are in that story that you could talk to Jack about — depending on what your occupation is perhaps? There’s Jack, there’s the hill, there’s Jill, there’s the bucket, there’s the priming of the pump, there’s the pump, there’s the airplane. There’s the soft drink soda, there’s the accident, there’s the rock, there’s the stitches, there’s a doctor and a chiropractor.
Any one of those signposts you could pick up on. If you’re a real estate salesman: “Jack, do I hear wedding bells for you and Jill? Because I’ve got a house that would be perfect for you.” You’re a PVC pipe salesman: “Jack have you ever thought that going up and down this hill for water is going to get pretty tedious, especially in winter. Did you ever think of some PVC pipe? Drill down and maybe go right to your own house? Tell me your thoughts on that, Jack.”
Arnie: So that’s the example that I give. There are millions of signposts in there. And you don’t have to think! You’re just listening to the person.
I’ll give you one more tip on this. I can’t quantify this, but it works. Remember what your mother or your father said to you when you were young: “If they can’t look you in the eyes, then they’re dishonest.” Well, it’s impossible to look at people in their eyes with your eyes. So look at one eye. Not a stare that will raise the dead, but in the course of that conversation look at one eye.
Now, trust me, they will not know you’re doing that. I had a friend that told me about this. Months later he invited me to lunch. After lunch he called me. He said, “were you aware that I was looking at one of your eyes throughout the entire lunch every time we talked?” And I said, “No, I did not.”
I have to think, subconsciously, that person feels a communication, some sort of bonding going on, or certainly paying attention. So those are the steps of the interview process, which I put in The Great Connection. We have the element of the behaviors, and we have the element of how to get people talking.
Susan: We’ve got so much mileage out of that. I have to thank you for putting that in the book. It’s been important to us in our work.
Acknowledging a style using "I" statements
follow along - 20:42
Susan: So far we’ve looked at how you’ve explained DiSC through the character Bob Hathaway, and how to get people talking to determine their style so that we can begin to adapt to their style.
You present this in your book as a three part model: listen, adapt, and acknowledge. I have to tell you that I was thrilled with this model. Especially the “acknowledge” step. I think this is the opportunity that most of us miss — even those of us who are DiSC literate. Can you tell us how you do this effectively? How can you acknowledge someone’s style, compliment them, and bond with them using this “acknowledge” step?
Arnie: This came from a remark from Dr Lefton. I was calling him about something or other. I’ll remind you, his book is a 400 page book that deals with the quadrants. He labeled them Q1, 2, 3, and 4. He overlaid Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs over each of those behavioral styles so that each style had a specific need that you would address.
But, as an offhand comment, he said to me, “You know, the most important thing in that book is the first person statement.” So I thought about that, and this man’s whole education. After all, he was taught by Maslow at Brandeis when he was a student, and he thinks the most important thing in the book is the first person statement?
I began to think of it on an everyday usage. Let’s say you’re in a coffee room where you work and there’s three or four people sitting there. Then, in comes this curmudgeon and he says, “I hate Mondays.”
Now you’ve got three choices:
- You can say to that person: “Yeah, I hate Mondays too,” and join them. Now you’re upset.
- Or you say, “I am so sick of you coming in here every single Monday morning and saying how much you hate Mondays! It brings us all down.” You’re still upset again because you’ve joined them.
- But, if you say, “I can see that you hate Mondays.” This doesn’t affect you at all.
And so I got thinking, How can I acknowledge the person’s behavior style subtly, but still bond with them? And I thought, Oh! I’ll merge the first person statement with a reflective statement.
Here are examples of this going through the behavioral styles:
- I can see that you want things done yesterday.
- I can see that you’re a bottom liner.
- I can see that you’re a traditionalist.
- I can see you like the status quo.
- I can see that you love people.
- I’ll bet they’ve given you a lot of plaques in your life.
- I can see that you’ve let nothing slip through the cracks.
- You love the details.
- You’re a perfectionist, I’ll bet.
And, of course, you’ve determined they are this style already. What’s that person going to think? They’re going to think: Finally, I’ve got somebody who understands me, someone who I can talk with.
So that was the third part of the equation.
Bring out the best in others using DiSC
follow along - 23:53
Susan: I would say that, probably, most of us are not usually capable of exhibiting our effective traits all of the time. It’s just not possible. Doc Crater does an excellent job of discussing this problem with Bob on page 75 of The Great Connection. Would you read that paragraph for us?
Arnie: Yes. “Bob, The reason I gave you the effective and ineffective traits of each style is so you can identify when a person feels secure or insecure. If they show their worst traits, reassure them by complimenting one of their effective traits. That way you help them bring out their best qualities.”
Susan: In my experience, when we encounter people using their ineffective traits, what we tend to do instead is to pull away from them. I found this to be an extremely powerful and high level relationship tip that was shared in the book. Would you be able to share any recent life examples of how you’ve been able to utilize this approach?
Arnie: Yes, I was trying to write a fourth book on the Middle Ages. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about. But, after 200 pages, I said, “What am I doing? Where am I going?” I was just stuck! And was up to here with all the research on that particular period. And my wife says, “You gotta get out of the house.” And I said, “Yes, I do. Where should I go?” Well, Susan you and I both know we love Apple Computers.
Susan: Oh, yes.
Arnie: I applied to the Apple store figuring they needed a token senior. They did. So, I was a Mac specialist, which meant I was a salesman.
What was interesting to me is, first, in the course of that salesmanship, you welcome them, of course, and ask, “Can I help you today?”
“Yes. I’m looking for a computer.”
And, before you show them any computers, you ask them how they’re using their computers. You’re getting them talking because this is vital to making sure they get the right product. And also, you’re learning their behavior style as they talk.
That was fun because people would come in and say, “I know what I want. I’ll come back to you.” Okay, I’d think, There’s that “D” style.
Another woman, I guess she was 29 years old, came in with her mother. She had a piece of paper in her hand with stuff on it. I asked if I could help. She said, “No, we’re all right. I’ll come back when we’re when we’re ready.”
She came back and she said, “This is what I want.” And she was ticking off everything she had on that paper. She was very detailed, obviously. So I said, “Is there anything extra I could tell you about that you may not know?” I was figuring she would want to hear about details like the AppleCare protection plan or free printer offer, and I could help her decide which one she’d like to choose.
They had brought in their old computer and purchased the new computer, and now they’re sitting at the Genius Bar waiting for their transfer of files information. I didn’t have any other customers at the time, so I thought, This is a game! Let’s see if I get this very “high C” talking. So I came over to her. I bothered her I am sure!
I said, “I can see that you are so detailed. This is fantastic because you knew exactly what you wanted.” She responded: “yes,” still being aloof.
I looked at the mother. The mother was okay with this; she was smiling at me. So I addressed the daughter again and said, ”When did you first know that you were detailed?” I said, “my daughter knew she was detailed right off the bat. Or rather, I did… because when I’d put her to bed at night, she’d say, ‘Dad, am I straight and in the middle?’”
I wish I knew the styles then, because I could have nurtured that in my daughter.
So the mother laughed and began telling me when the daughter exhibited these traits. And then, finally, the daughter loosened up.
“Bob, The reason I gave you the effective and ineffective traits of each style is so you can identify when a person feels secure or insecure. If they show their worst traits, reassure them by complimenting one of their effective traits. That way you help them bring out their best qualities.”
The Great Connection, page 75
Arnie: Here’s another example. A guy comes in on a Thursday for an iPod for his fiancée in New York. I knew that new iPods were coming out the following day. So it’s Thursday, the new ones are coming out on Friday, and the fiancée’s birthday is Saturday. And he’s got to ship this to her.
So I said, “Well, what does she want?”
“Well, she has a classic model, and she wants a new classic.” I’m thinking, okay, she might be an “S.” You know: let’s not change things. He didn’t know what color to get her, whether to get black or silver. And I said, “When she gets dressed up, what is her favorite attire? Is it a black dress with pearls?” He said, “Yes, exactly!”
So I said, “Go with the black one, but come back tomorrow.”
“I can’t tell you, but come back tomorrow.”
“But, I have to…” And I said, “Come back tomorrow.”
And, of course, he did and overnighted it to her. She got exactly what she wanted.
But it was fun to do this as an aid to bonding with the customer. Because I only worked three days a week, people would say, “When are you on? I wanna come back, but I want to work with you.” I think this is because of what we’ve already discussed.
Susan: I’m sure of it.
follow along - 29:24
Susan: I’d like to thank you for writing this wonderful book, The Great Connection. It’s been really important to us and to our work. And now, I would like to open up the floor for questions or comments that anyone in attendance today might have for you, Arnie.
I have now opened up the floor. Please feel free to introduce yourself and ask your questions to Arnie.
John David: Arnie, this is John David Bowman. I really enjoyed this book. It’s just a delightful read. I’ve used it in DiSC training. I remember hearing one person comment after they read the book. He said, “I don’t know exactly how I’ll be using this at work, but I’m sure I will. But I can tell you this, the whole program has been worthwhile because of the advice I got and the pattern of learning how to speak.”
He had trouble communicating with his son. He said, “I’d come home and ask him, ‘how are things going?’ and I’d get a one word reply. But, when I started using these marvelous guidelines, I began to hear all kinds of things. And all from just with that opening line you gave us in the book. I really appreciated that.”
Arnie: Well, thank you very much. While working on the second book, Find Your Passion, in the course of doing the research I worked with Dr. Edith Donahoe. She said to me after we got finished, “You love words. You love to affect people emotionally with words, but you’re only fulfilled if they have benefited people.” You’ve just fulfilled it for me, John David. Thank you!
John David: I have a question for you. On page 26, you talk about the secret to success. You describe it as total belief in oneself. It’s often struck me that there’s a fine line between faith and foolhardiness. So, how does one go about assessing when one has placed too much belief in oneself? Or, could say a little bit more about the notion of what it means to believe in yourself as the secret to success?
Arnie: I’m not a psychologist, so I’ll give you a personal explanation. The belief in yourself means that you can do anything that you’re suited for. It’s the confidence, the security that goes with that — the ability to take risks, the ability to step outside your comfort zone knowing that you’re going to expand your comfort zone.
So, the total belief in yourself is not that I am the center of the universe concept. But, “Yes, I can.”
Here’s a good example: knowing the hero’s journey. It’s knowing that there’s going to be many obstacles. But if you still believe and you don’t quit on yourself, then that’s what I mean by that. When you take a risk, you will never fail yourself.
It’s just part of the ongoing process, as in the hero’s journey, which is the formula for every good movie, good play, good book, etc. Obstacle after obstacle and people telling you can’t do it, yet you believe that you can. And not listening to other people who tell you that you can’t. When you do succeed in that journey, you are changed forever. And so is everybody around you. That the hero’s journey concept.
But the total believe in yourself, the way McLamore said it to me immediately and with the confidence that he walked around the world with. I don’t know if I can explain it, but that total belief in yourself is the security of understanding your behavior styles, knowing your effective traits, knowing others’ effective traits and ineffective traits, it helps you stay the course.
John David: Immensely helpful. Thanks so much!
Arnie: You’re welcome.
Susan: I think that when you’re talking about total acceptance of self and you look at Maslow’s Hierarchy, which you mentioned earlier, we should look at his self-esteem piece. When you were talking about how we can support each other in developing, supporting, and maintaining people’s self-esteem by focusing on the positive side of their style, even during those times that they are not representing themselves well. It’s just so powerful. I think it really ties into what you’ve just shared.
I’d like to thank you for your time. I particularly would like to thank you, Arnie, for your willingness to spend this time with us this morning and share your insights and stories from your book The Great Connection. It’s been wonderful to have this time with you.
Arnie: Well, thank you, Susan. And thank you all for tuning in.